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Do You Deserve To Have An Opinion?
Logic? - Do You Deserve to Have An OpinionWe have been on the radio for three years now. I have decided that unlike men, all opinions are not created equal which means not everyone deserves to have an opinion. For now on, I am going to require a simple, but apparently difficult, logic test for all people before they share an opinion.

Ready...

True or false:
      If A implies B.
      Then B implies A.

Simple enough right? Think you know the answer? Read on...

The inspiration behind this post is an email we received last night from Lucida on our topic "Man's Best Friend Has Become Man's God". She writes: "From a factual standpoint: It has been well studied and documented that animal cruelty is associated with crimes against human beings." The implication. Those that are cruel to animals are just destined to become murders.

Now the study she is referring to is true. It has been proven that those who have committed serious crimes had shown a propensity towards animal cruelty before acting out on humans. But does the inverse ring true as well?1

Another classic statement I hear is that studies have shown that serial rapists were also pornography users.

Well duh! Of course those who are rapists are going to have an abnormal view of sexuality. But does the inverse run true? Are those who struggle with porn one image away from becoming a rapist?

When I was in high school, I took an Introduction to Philosophy class at Huntington University. As I later realized, it was less a class on classic philosophy and more a class on logic. The above test was essentially day one of the class.

Let's take the murders and rapists and alphabet letters2 out of the equation and put it in more simple terms.

If it is raining the streets are wet. The streets are wet, therefore it must be raining. Wait a minute, something is right about that statement.

And now we are back to my test. Why doesn't that sound right? Because logic that assumes since a implies b, therefore b implies a is false. The streets could be wet because of a fire hydrant or because a dam break or thousands of other reasons.

If you answered true to the test above, you would be wrong, and no longer deserve to have an opinion as there is something fundamentally wrong at the core of your logic.

If you have an opinion, be sure to leave it in the comment box below.3
Comments
Christopher Spurgeon
Monday, July 14, 2008 12:53:07 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Now for us non-intelectuals (Accounting Majors) this is not fair. Because if you substitute numbers for either letter the above is true. So their are some faults to it (my opinion). But other than that I agree. Some people also use stats, surveys, and studies to skew the views of others.
Almost like using a leading indicator to demonstrate what is happening in the economy presently. HA thats for you non-mathematical (actually it economics but oh well) types.


Andy Borgmann
Monday, July 14, 2008 01:03:50 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Because if you substitute numbers for either letter the above is true.
Touché. I'll give you non-intellectuals a pass when we are in a heated discussion about numbers.

Some people also use stats, surveys, and studies to skew the views of others.
As Benjamin Disraeli said, and good ole Mark Twain popularized, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."


Erik
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 08:57:54 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com What does this mean:
if you substitute numbers for either letter the above is true

??


Andy Borgmann
Tuesday, July 15, 2008 09:05:54 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
What does this mean:
I think it means if you apply math problems, then the statement is always true.

For example:

If 2 + 4 Equals 3 + 3
Then 3 + 3 Equals 2 + 4

Or....

If 3 / 4 Equals 6 / 8
Then 6 / 8 Equals 3 /4

There are probably examples where numbers would falsify the statement, but I am too lazy to figure it out.


Erik
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 08:56:26 AM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com That's different though. One is a statement of equality (a = b) and the other has the form if a then b, which doesn't imply equality, only that the set which is called a always contains the set called b. Maybe the dude can clarify.


Sarah Elwer
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:08:50 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com You lost the History/Youth Ministry major with all the math, but I'm listening to the show at work, and it's a good time!


Christopher Spurgeon
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:48:37 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com As Benjamin Disraeli said, and good ole Mark Twain popularized, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I LIKE THAT ONE!


Erik
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 07:07:38 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com Thanks for that non-answer.


Andy Borgmann
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 07:13:09 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Thanks for that non-answer.
Be nice Erik. This is my blog and people don't hate you yet ;)

I think we all agree that for philosophical/moral/etc that if you believe "a implies b - then b implies a" you are a moron.


Erik
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 08:06:56 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com My friend says honesty is a higher form of spirituality thank kindness.



Andy Borgmann
Wednesday, July 16, 2008 09:54:55 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
My friend says honesty is a higher form of spirituality thank kindness.
You know I agree with that.


The Last Cainanite
Friday, July 18, 2008 11:50:28 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com You are of course absolutely right on the logic part. But you get it wrong on some of the facts that logic has to operate on (garbage in - garbage out).

Another classic statement I hear is that studies have shown that serial rapists were also pornography users.


This is irrelevant as it offers no comparison to population at large. Most people in the US are pornography users including almost all men.
If rapists don't use pornography any more frequently than non-rapists the above sentence is as useful as remarking that serial rapists also ate bread.


Well duh! Of course those who are rapists are going to have an abnormal view of sexuality.

Of course you need to show why pornography is an example of an "abnormal view of sexuality". Merriam-Webster defines "abnormal" as "deviating from the normal or average; unusual, exceptional". And here are some statistics on pornography use:
http://familysafemedia.com/pornography_statistics.html#anchor7 (note that this is an anti-porn website but it does feature extensive stats)


But does the inverse run true? Are those who struggle with porn one image away from becoming a rapist?


If the adverse were true (serial rapists more likely to use porn) then you would be right: the reverse would not necessarily apply.
But I say that just because serial rapists like to use porn it does not follow that they use porn any more than the rest of us. As a matter of fact, porn might well lead to less sex crimes, reversing the correlation:
http://www.law.stanford.edu/display/images/dynamic/events_media/Kendall%20cover%20+%20paper.pdf

Oh, and your "struggle with porn" is an interesting turn of phrase. I would guess that if one is "struggling with porn" because one has been raised to believe it is evil and sinful, he or she is more likely to suffer negative psychological consequences than those of us who watch porn guilt-free because we don't see anything wrong with it. I have no proof of this; it is just a hunch.


Andy Borgmann
Friday, July 18, 2008 11:54:08 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
because one has been raised to believe it is evil and sinful, he or she is more likely to suffer negative psychological consequences than those of us who watch porn guilt-free because we don't see anything wrong with it.
Actually no. I was raised to believe there was nothing wrong with porn and/or masturbation. So don't pull that psycho-babble with me.

You can go back and reference all my (many) posts on pornography. Porn wasn't the purpose of this post. Logic was. Porn was just example of how people (especially Christians) misuse logic.


The Last Cainanite
Tuesday, July 22, 2008 02:49:01 PM    Quote Selection | Permalink
Gravatar.com
Actually no. I was raised to believe there was nothing wrong with porn and/or masturbation. So don't pull that psycho-babble with me.


I wasn't talking about you specifically, just about Christians in general. Of course there are always exceptions - no need to get your panties in a twist over it though. :)

You can go back and reference all my (many) posts on pornography. Porn wasn't the purpose of this post. Logic was. Porn was just example of how people (especially Christians) misuse logic.


Right, but in using porn as an example you implied that rape and pornography were comparable "abnormal views of sexuality".,
You also implied that "most x do y" is somehow a significant statement, when it is completely meaningless unless you compare to to the prevalence of y in the general population of the same demographic.

Hence my comment.



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Description
Andy's blog aims to be like a Scrubs episode, mixed with a Chuck Klosterman column, centered around the topic of faith. It is open, honest, raw, and a little embarrassing. It is a place to discuss religion, politics, ministry, pop culture, and well, just life - especially focused on the time of life we call our 20s!

Andy is the Executive Producer of The Allen Hunt Show; a progressive (in the literal sense), talk radio show based in Atlanta, GA aimed at bringing faith back into the public discussion. Andy enjoys travel, aviation, web design, politics, friends, and faith. He holds that the secret to a full life is loving God and loving people - which he fails at constantly.

Andy grew up in Fort Wayne, IN. He now lives in Alpharetta, GA.

More information about Andy can be found at www.2timothy42.org or Andy's Facebook.

P.S. As has been mentioned on air, Andy is horrible at grammar and spelling. Please excuse any mistakes, trust me, he's sorry.



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