Andy Borgmann's Blog

An interesting retrospect, however, I cannot think of a single person who would make a better attorney than Emily. Not because she is a dear friend, not because she is super smart, but because she is the single most hard working person I know and even more than that the most understanding person. And you are not an attorney until you actually work hard to obtain the title. Anyway, Emily's ambition to be a lawyer did not start in Mrs. Walkers class, nonetheless, I wish I had seen her "badger" your witness. The truth is much larger life events shape our path and even more than that environment and family shape our path, not compliments from "unqualified" persons. So, if you are having a hard time figuring out what you should do with your life, ask your parents, your family, because they know what you are capable of more than anyone. And, if you do want to be an attorney, or any other career that requires more than a GED, grades are quite important.
P.S. Emily should kill you for using that photo, and don't be so sure!

Andy: I can't help but think that there are few people that would make a better attorney than Emily

Fellow Former Spartan: I cannot think of a single person who would make a better attorney than Emily.

You and I agree on that. I am not sure if you weren't reading carefully, or just repeating my point because you think I am a genius.

And you are not an attorney until you actually work hard to obtain the title.

I am not claiming I was, nor would I disagree with that statement. Being an attorney, especially a good, honest one, is a very, very hard thing to surmount. I have the highest respect for those who go through it and make it out.

The truth is much larger life events shape our path and even more than that environment and family shape our path, not compliments from "unqualified" persons.

I am not disagreeing with that by any means. But what I think is interesting about our life is that often times it is the little things, sometimes extremely little things, that get us where we are at. Which I think makes life very interesting. I think back on my own story, and it was a compliment from someone after I spoke publicly in front of 1,200 people my sophomore year that helped me accept my call into full time ministry.

I am not really trying to get into a pissing match over a girl I haven't talked to in over six years. Emily wasn't really the point of this blog, she was just the prop I used to try and get a point across. I knew Emily pretty well in 9th & 10th grade, and whether I am right or wrong, as I recall that moment had a very profound impact on her. If I am wrong, so be it, my point in this blog still stands.

I think the question I have for you, is why do you apparently care so much? I am not bashing her. This isn't liable. Heck, if anything I felt this was a pretty positive post about her. What is it in your life that compels you for some reason to defend a girl who isn't even getting bashed, about something that happened in high school?

And, if you do want to be an attorney, or any other career that requires more than a GED, grades are quite important.

This is about the only thing I take issue with. It is this arrogance that drives me nuts, especially in the 21st century. Bill Gates, changed the world profoundly, was a college drop out. Albert Einstein wasn't a big fan either: "At school, Einstein clashed with authority and resented the school regimen, believing that the spirit of learning and creative thought were lost in such endeavors as strict rote learning." Glenn Davenport (you don't know him, but who I work very closely with, who used to be the CEO of Morrison Foods, a billion dollar health care company) is one of the most savvy business people I know, didn't graduate college. Mark Twain wrote some profoundly beautiful words when he said, "I never let my schooling get in the way of my education."

All this to say, I am not bashing education and grades, but I am also not going to concede to the academic arrogance and say that those who can only get a GED are destined for a life of meaninglessness, ineptitude, and sorrow - it just isn't true.

I am not saying in all professions grades don't matter. In fact, I even used the example of being an attorney or a doctor in my presentation, saying that if that is what you feel called to do, then grades matter big time. But not everyone wants to do that. And I know for a fact in business and the media, that grades really don't make much of a difference assuming you pass. Sure, a high GPA may get your foot in the door easier, but real world experience is what is going to pay off in the long wrong.

Even my dad, who has been an attorney for over 30 years now, always says that no one has asked him what law school he graduated from, or what his GPA was in law school in over 25 years. 3 years out of law school, no one cares, plain and simple. It is how you suffice in the real world, how your clients respect you, how the local legal community respects you, and how you are able to win cases that matters.

P.S. Emily should kill you for using that photo, and don't be so sure!

I am not sure who you are (even though I know you are coming to us live from Michigan ;), but I can pretty much guarantee Emily doesn't read this. And if she does, who cares, the photo isn't a bad one. At least we both look happy - that was a fun trip. And if she doesn't like me using that photo, she can chose from the other one I have in digital format here.

I am not sure who you are (even though I know you are coming to us live from Michigan ;)

Check that, I do know who you are. Nothing like photography in Mirador huh? :)

Since the photos of Emily on your MySpace are the first I have seen her in six years, and I assume since she is "one of your heroes" you are still in touch with her. You can pass along the message that I think she is looking good, and I truly hope she is happy and fulfilled.

I apologize, after review of what you originally wrote I misunderstood what you said. I thought you wrote “I can't help but think that there are a few people that would make a better attorney than Emily”, it was not clear that you thought she would make a great attorney, and therefore I felt compelled to let you know she would and will. I also thought that since you are in a position that could possibly shape young minds it is not wise to give a false impression of the real world. I am not defending the grading scale or our educational system, there are definite flaws, nonetheless I must say that grades are important in the sense that you have to make certain academic achievements to position yourself well for the future career of your choice. You state some well known exceptions to this, but they are rare exceptions to say the least, if you look at the majority of CEO’s today they have an undergraduate degree plus an MBA and many are from Ivy League schools. High school grades and scholastic test scores are what make or break getting into higher education. For most kids with goals of becoming an attorney, a CEO, or a large number of other career paths, higher education is a must. Those who are genius or lucky are few and far between. Gates himself had to have great grades to get accepted to Harvard, whether he finished or not. Albert Einstein did not enjoy his education, however he did get one - he has a degree. And I love Mark Twain, he is brilliant, but he lived in a different time. I am in the working world now and for many jobs I applied for my resume was being scrutinized and my transcripts from college were being requested- and that is standard procedure for many larger companies. It is very competitive out there, and I am not so arrogant to think that I am above those in the competition. I have a younger sister in high school and I told her the only job she has in school is to get the grades that will get her into college. She did, and she is off to college next fall. Now college will only be a piece of the puzzle, but it will put her in a very nice position. No, not every job requires exhaustive educational achievements, but those are not usually the dream job we strive for, it is usually the “runner-up” we get into because we didn’t work hard enough for the other, which is not necessarily a bad thing, it is what it is.
I don’t care that much, but when you write about your opinions on a blog it is usually because you want people to read, absorb, and respond – to engage in discussion, so I thought I would.

I think what you said was very well put. I went to college knowing that I was going to do something with French all because my French teacher in high school gave me the opportunity to teach our French class for one whole day. After I got done, she complemented me very much on my French skill as well as my teaching skills. Not only did I end up majoring in French, but I ended up choosing education as well all because my teacher had given me an opportunity to use my skills and she affirmed them.

P.S. I know my education teachers would probably want to black list me because I'm saying this, but I don't think grades matter either. As I saw time and time again when I was teaching high school, a good number of my students who had the best skills and the best interaction with their peers and their teachers were not always the ones with the highest grade in the class. At the end of the day, nobody is going to care what your grade was in any class, but what knowledge you took from it. Experience in classes will trump grades any day!

I thought you wrote “I can't help but think that there are a few people that would make a better attorney than Emily”, it was not clear that you thought she would make a great attorney

Well we all know I suck at grammar (should have taken some more classes in that ehhh ;) - especially since it is even weirder now that I am writing a book). So I probably could have worded that a little better

No, not every job requires exhaustive educational achievements, but those are not usually the dream job we strive for, it is usually the “runner-up”

I get what you are saying, but still slightly disagree. There are plenty of jobs out there that are dream jobs that fit this category (i.e. mine). And the question of a "dream" job is really quite relative. I know (like you) growing up in SWAC, we were all told that we need to be doctor, or attorneys, or high-profile business people to have "our dream" job. But there are plenty of jobs out there that don't fit these categories that are still dream jobs.

I am still advocating for college degrees, and hard work - no doubt about that. What I am saying in my personal experience is that when push came to shove, I would choose real work experience over studying for a test any day. It is also the reason I failed 3/4 of the tests I took in college. But in the end, I graduated with a 3.1, and I received the outstanding student award (pic 1 | pic 2) in my department because my professors recognized that despite my low test grades, I was probably the "smartest" student in the department. It is also why I received the Servant Leadership Award as well. But awards really mean quite little, I am grateful for the decision to choose real world experience over studying because it was what prepared me to do what I am doing now, and do it well.

I don’t care that much, but when you write about your opinions on a blog it is usually because you want people to read, absorb, and respond – to engage in discussion, so I thought I would.

You are exactly correct about that. Whether it is this blog, the blog I maintain on my show (very similar posts), or my column on Newsvine, that is exactly what I am looking for: a discussion.

Experience in classes will trump grades any day!

There you have it! Spoken direct from a teacher ;) P.S. I know Sarah has got to be lurking around here somewhere, and she will comment soon about how I am a cocky bastard for talking about my Outstanding Student Award and how it really doesn't mean much ;) When she does, she's right.

Good night, Andy! Your comments are like a blog within a blog. I spent all that time reading to try to figure out if knew the mystery spartan and you never truly revealed his/her identity. What a waste of my precious moments of peace...and today they are precious as Jadyn only took one 20 minute nap on the way home from visiting Maggie and Molly. And, although I do not feel that grades are completely unimportant, I can honestly say that most of what I was being graded on has never been used in my adult life. That is just my two cents on an issue pretty much completely unrelated to your blog. Thanks for giving me something to read every now and again!

I spent all that time reading to try to figure out if knew the mystery spartan and you never truly revealed his/her identity. What a waste of my precious moments of peace

Sorry, Drea, even though I figured out who it was, I still respect anyone who wants to stay anonymous, thus I have wasted your time, sorry ;)

Just thought I'd weigh in on this grades debate:

I've applied for several legal jobs. I applied to one today, as a matter of fact.

I've never once put my GPA on a resume.

Sure, it matters for a few jobs, and you have to earn your keep in law school. But unless you're applying for a big firm, the employers simply don't care.

Once you hit professional schools, it's not the kids who work hard that get the jobs; it's the kids who are simply good at the law. It's not about absorbing information and parroting it back anymore; professional schools are about refining certain nuances of the thought process and helping clients. Work ethic won't help you there.

There's a saying we have in law school:

A students become professors. B students become judges.

C students become millionaire lawyers.

I agree with what Andy said at career day about grades; things like social skills, your reputation, and how you comport yourself in a professional setting (not to mention the old trick of "who you know") matter much more.

Grades may get your foot in the door in some situations, but that's about it.

Just my two cents.

A students become professors. B students become judges.
C students become millionaire lawyers.

That's great. I have never heard that before.